Luckily (or unluckily however you look at it) I'm buddies with guys that not only ridiculed me to the tenth degree for thinking with my earlier cheapskate mentality, but also get plenty of ammo sent to them, being Freedom Munitions sponsored shooters and all. Speaking of sights, the SIG has what is evidently a fairly expensive set of Tritium sights that glow in the dark (I think they are about a hundred bucks if you buy them separately).  The glow is not like the lume of a watch dial; instead, they have something else going on that makes them light up at night.  You can see that in this photo I took in the dark: I think the Tritium sights are kind of a Gee-Whiz deal, and I don’t think I need them.  I’m an old guy and I shoot targets when I can see what I’m shooting at.  If I was a lot younger and I was running around in a white Ferrari with Miami Vice music playing while chasing bad guys at night, maybe Tritium sights would do it for me.  But even under those conditions, it would still be dark and I wouldn’t be able to see my target.   It’s a police department trade-in that was manufactured in the 1980s.  My good buddy Tom gave me a great deal on it, I refinished the brushed stainless steel slide and frame, I fixed the decocker (it wasn’t dropping the hammer when the safety was actuated), and I’ve been shooting it a lot in the last few months.  My gun has Pachmayr checkered rubber grips (which I like a lot). There simply isn't much load data for the super-heavy 9mm bullets. Any good loading manual should have recommended loads using Bullseye in the 9mm.   There’s a lot of information here and I didn’t want it to be overwhelming.  It also involves a lot of shooting (about a half day’s worth with just the cast bullets), and I wanted to clean the pistols after shooting the cast bullet loads before moving on to the jacketed loads. is .380" diameter (neck) for a loaded 9mm cartridge. Nosler and Zero 185-grain JHP bullets are commonly used by top Bullseye shooters, and they look almost identical. Donate to us through PAYPAL or VENMO. Notes: Test gun was a SIG Sauer P226 9mm Luger with a 4.4-inch barrel.All velocities measured approximately 10 feet from muzzle using an Oehler Model 35P chronograph.   With Unique, they were all loaded with 5.0 grains, which is a max charge in most reloading manuals. The Lyman 44th Edition has data for Bullseye, Red Dot, Unique and Herco … There’s not too much to dislike about the Springfield Armory 1911.  Springfield makes a quality gun.  The fit and finish on mine are superb.  One thing I’ve noticed is that it has a tight chamber, and ammo loaded on a progressive reloader is prone to sometimes jam if the cartridge isn’t perfect (unlike the 659, which feeds anything).  That doesn’t bother me because I load everything on a single-stage RCBS Rockchucker these days.  I don’t need the speed of a progressive reloader, and my ammo quality and accuracy are better when I load on a single-stage press.  The trigger on my 1911 is superb, as is the case on nearly every 1911 I’ve ever shot. Stand at the firing line, hold the pistol in one hand, and fire 5- or 10-shot strings at different ranges and under different time limits. Lots of uspsa and ICORE shooters I know personally use it in 9mm without problems. While the SIG was accurate with Winchester’s 231 propellant, the gun didn’t like it.  On both of the 3.4 grain loads, the slide went forward after the last round (it didn’t lock open), and it did it again on one of the 3.9 grain magazines.  While the 231 loads had enough poop to cycle the action, it wasn’t running the slide far enough back to lock open on the last round.  This powder also did that on one of the Springfield Armory 1911 tests. Accurate #5. Re: 9mm LOADS FOR bullseye by gregbenner on 9/11/2017, 3:04 pm I also have a new custom 9mm, long slide 1911 with a Clark barrel (also from Jon E) that I … One last comment…it’s time for the warnings and disclaimers.  These are my loads in my guns.  You should always consult a reloading manual published by one of the major sources (Hornady, Speer, Sierra, Lyman, Winchester, Alliant, you get the idea) and rely on the load data published there.  Start low and work your way up, watching for any pressure signs along the way. It still is my standard load for cast in the 9mm, especially these days under the Lee 356-120-TC. Ambient temperatures varied from approximately 65 to 85 degrees Fahrenheit. In the gun world, debates rage on for decades, and some are pushing a century. We made up a batch of 9mm training ammo using plated bullets. Unsurpassed for .45 ACP target loads. I've used 4 gr of Bullseye for years under 115 - 125 gr cast bullets in a multitude of 9mm handguns and subguns.  At 10 yards they shot OK but this was for ten-second mag dumps in a 7 inch circle. Ramshot Silhouette. For reference, the 9mm Luger/Para is .754″ case length.   It is a heavy gun at 40 ounces, mostly because it has a steel frame (many 9mm handguns have a polymer or aluminum frame). If you plug the numbers in a recoil calculator and use a 185 grain lead .45 going 725 it nearly matches the recoil from a 115 grain 9mm going 1100 fps, assuming equal gun weights. The actual shooting challenge is quite simple. 9mm bullseye competition loads 9mm bullseye competition loads This is Part I of the promised 9mm comparo, and after thinking about it for a bit, I thought I would focus on the cast bullet loads in the first installment, and then move on to the jacketed bullet loads in the next one (that will come a little later). Undoubtedly, these debates aren’t going anywhere soon, but some get especially heated. (function(d, s, id) {var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0];if (d.getElementById(id)) return;js = d.createElement(s); js.id = id;js.src = "https://connect.facebook.net/en_EN/all.js#xfbml=1";fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js, fjs);}(document, 'script', 'facebook-jssdk')); by miguel.medina.98478672 on 9/10/2017, 12:13 pm, NEED SOME GOOD LOADS FOR 9MM, USING BERRY BULLETS 115 GR, ROUND NOSE, .356.  I have .355 and .356 SWC from PENN, and on order have 6 different jacketed Magnus bullets, 115, 124,125, and 147. No problem. Brad says the most important part of a Bullseye load is the bullet. spring in my CZ-75 for shooting standard, +P, or warm handloads. That’s a lot of bitching, I suppose, especially when it’s directed at a handgun I enjoy shooting enormously.  None of the above would keep me from buying a 659 (and none of the above kept me from buying this one).  I like my 659.  If you get an opportunity to buy one and the price is right for you, take it from a guy who knows:  You won’t regret pulling the trigger (literally and figuratively) on a used Model 659.  That’s if you can even find one.  The police departments have all traded them in, Smith and Wesson stopped making these guns decades ago, and the supply is drying up. Objective is to determine how accurate a load can be developed.  In .38 and .45 from the Ransom Rest, they gave dinner plate sized groups at 50 yards out of guns that will shoot 2" groups or less with Magnus bullets. Bullets & Powders. strengthen your google fu! I like the 659.  Like I said above, it’s heavy (but that means it’s steady) and it seems to shoot everything well.  What do I not like about it?  It needs to be kept clean behind the extractor, or it will sometimes fail to fully extract and eject a fired cartridge. A few loads that would be used for self-defense were included, though they were a minority.   The Pachmayr grips add to the 659’s bulky grip design, but they also allow a secure hold. Plated bullets just don't have the accuracy level needed for bullseye shooting. WST is great in both also BUT there is not much published load data for 9mm. So there you have it.  Next up?  I want to see how these same three pistols shoot jacketed bullets.  Stay tuned. Bullets are custom designed for individual loads. Thirty-eight factory loads were tested, ranging from 90 to 147 grains. These are only a fraction of 9mm loads available. I’ve had my 9mm 1911 for about 5 years (I bought it new from my good buddy Brian at Bullet Barn Guns). Hasty Conclusions: Qiilu 7-Inch Universal Motorcycle Headlight, An Urban Camo SIG 239 (and a quick Python update), Favorite Baja Hotels: Bahia San Quintin’s The Old Mill. That’s okay; it’s still fun to shoot and I plan to continue shooting it a lot.  And it only cost about a third what the others cost.  Like I said earlier, if you get a chance to pick up a 659, don’t let it get away. Don’t pay exorbitant range fees for targets.  Buy online and get targets delivered to your door like we do! . I'm in 100% agreement with Greg and dronning. Thank you for supporting our site! In Ken Waters Pet Loads (9mm update), he lists a load for a 115 grain bullet going 1207 fps with Bullseye as very accurate. 9mm powders I've used over the years include Bullseye, 231, Unique, AA#2, AA#5, AA#7, Titegroup, HS-6, Blue Dot, SR4756, SR7625, Herco, Power Pistol, and maybe others with about a dozen bullets ranging from around 100 grains to more than 150 grains. Yeah, I have to agree that Berry's plated bullets are best for plinking.  The load was 5.4 CFEPistol, CCI primers, mixed brass, X-Treme  115 plated. What I'm not getting is the point of shooting a 9mm at 1100+ fps. The culprits were a combination of mild pressures and cast bullet lubes. The 659 S&W is a gun that’s been featured on the ExNotes blog before. I generally like to use a powder that fills the case well so a case that is accidently "overcharged" is readily apparent.   That’s due to the nature of the extractor, which is a hinged arm.  When grit or powder reside gets behind the aft portion of the extractor, it can’t pivot and it doesn’t pull the cartridge all the way out so that it can be ejected.  I think the squared-off trigger guard is goofy.  I never wrap my left hand around the front of the trigger guard and I prefer the look of a rounded trigger guard.  Like most double-action/single-action semi-auto handguns, this 659 has the Joe Biden trigger (it’s kind of creepy). I also have a new custom 9mm, long slide 1911 with a Clark barrel (also from Jon E) that I will be Ransom testing as well. Little slow in the 45 but shoots good and is accurate, no ill effects in the 8 lbs I've used. I think the Tritium sights are gimmicky, and the little lenses (or whatever they are) for the Tritium inserts are distracting.  Plain black sights work best for me.  Your mileage may vary. Buy, Sell, and Trade your Firearms and Gear. Looking for great deals on reloading equipment?  Here you go! Want to read a similar jacketed bullet test series with the same three 9mm handguns?  It’s right here! Most manuals stop at 147 grains, though Hodgdon and Vihtavuori have data for 150 grain bullets. SAAMI spec. My CZ will shoot low/left with most loads but for some reason the Bullseye loads shot dead on. ** ** All our products and components are proudly manufactured in the USA. In a later article (9mm, re-update) Peters states,  I have noted that the plated bullets are at least +\- .002 off the chosen diameter. About two months ago I was with said professional 3-Gun slayer and in desperate need of hitting 100 yard IPSC steel targets on … Author Joe Berk Posted on January 26, 2020 December 11, 2020 Categories Guns Tags 9mm, 9mm bullseye competition loads, 9mm cast bullets, Missouri Bullets, Model 659 Smith and Wesson, Most accurate 9mm bullet for reloading, pet loads for 9mm, SIG P226, SIG Scorpion, Springfield Armory 1911 2 Comments on The 9mm Comparo: Cast Bullet Loads The most effective, consistent, and reliable self-defense ammunition available today! Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! at 200 yards power pistol was at least 30% smaller than even the vv powders. Always worked for me. “Loaded” makes it sound like the gun is a stoner (i.e., a doper, not the weapons designer). Match-grade 9mm ammunition is a different subject we will address in a future article. Go look up target loads using Bullseye and see what competition shooters have proven for one hundred years .   I knew it was accurate, but I had not really played with it that much to find out what loads it liked best. Bullseye is a fast burning powder and perhaps better suited to the small cases like the 380 Auto. 9mm and .45 ACP. Reloading the 9mm Luger is an easy process, but there are a few useful techniques for getting the most out of your 9mm loads. Since then, Springfield Armory released the XD(m) in the three most popular semiautomatic calibers: the .9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP, and the three most popular form factors: Full size, compact and sub-compact.   Interestingly, the Smith and Wesson 659 worked okay with both the upper and lower 231 loads.  These were light loads (I could see the slide moving back and forth with each shot, and it popped the brass out right next to the gun).  My testing got me far enough along to decide Winchester 231 is not for me as a 9mm propellant. That’s the background.  Here are the results: Clearly, the SIG is the most accurate of the three handguns.  What I’d read and heard about SIG’s performance is true.  Some of the SIG groups were amazing, putting 5-shots into under an inch at 50 feet.  That’s about as good as I’ve ever done. bullseye 115 gr 9mm loads, Shiny silver nickel plating prevents corrosion, and is easily visible in low light situations. I used three 9mm handguns for this test:  A former police-issue Model 659 Smith and Wesson, a Springfield Armory 1911 Target, and a SIG P226 Scorpion. I plan to test both SS and LL. Shadow Catcher All loads were handheld at a distance of 50 feet.  I shot two 5-shot groups with each load.  I didn’t use a machine rest or a chronograph because I have neither.  I shot from the bench, resting my arms (but not the gun) on the bench.  Yes, a lot of the variability you see in the chart below is due to me.  Hey, I’m what you get.  My intent was to get an idea what worked best in each of these guns, and I think I succeeded. A Load for the 9mm Service Pistol Here is a 9mm load that David Sams has been using for testing Beretta 92 barrels and his completed guns that has been proven sub 1.5" groups at 50 yds is as follows: Starline brass ; 115gr Hornady FMJ-RN bullet The 9mm Luger (9x19mm) is the most popular centerfire handgun cartridge in the world. Plan to use in two accurate CZ's, a 85 and 75BD. Principal Purpose: Handgun loads Remarks: America's best known pistol powder. Bullets are cannelured and crimped to avoid bullet setback. After a lot of research, including consulting several competition shooters and gunsmiths, I can offer the following proven handloads.  In my CZ and a SIG they shot well. Sure it groups 1" or so out of a good gun but you can get 1.5" usually from a accurate lead load in .45acp. A Forum dedicated to the sport of Bullseye shooting, Bullseye-L Forum :: Ammunition Discussion. So how do I like the SIG?  In a word, it’s awesome.  I like the look of the Cerakote finish and the SIG grips, and gun just feels right in my hand.  The grips fit like a glove, and the grip texture works.  It is one seriously good-looking and good-handling handgun. Would like to try and work up an accurate pistol load for 25yd bullseye targets. S&W Performance Center 5906 PPC 9mm Sig Arms P210-5 Heavy Frame 9mm Anyone loading the 9mm for target accuracy? The 659 is a great gun, but from an accuracy perspective it can’t run with the big dogs. Re: 9mm loads for Bullseye Shooting by Wmvdg123 on 12/17/2018, 10:42 pm another vote for power pistol vs other powders in my ransom rest testing the groups really opened up after 50 yards. I would not use them for the long line.Â. Very fine powder, dense. But, in the Gunsmithing sub-forum this topic is occasionally discussed, and one of the country's premier Bullseye Pistolsmith, Jerry Keefer, has opined and shown examples of "custom" 1911 9mm's being more accurate than similar 1911's in 45acp. I'm with you zane.. you can have a 38 super that shoots 1.6 with with soft loads. **All remanufactured ammo is 100% fully reconditioned in house back to S.A.A.M.I.   Cartridge overall length was 1.112 inches for all loads. The current Lyman manual (49th Edition) does not have load data for anything heavier than 147 grains, but older manuals do. None of these loads are "light," and while fairly "warm," I've had no problems with them damaging either my Hi Powers, CZ-75s, FN Competition, SIG P-210 or HK P7 over the longer term. conventional recoil springs in my Hi Powers and a conventional 18 lb.    Let’s start with a few words about each. View the SDS Springfield Armory changed the name on this gun.  It used to be called the “Loaded” model (as in loaded with all the options, including target sights and hand fitting here in the US), but they later changed the name to the Target model.  That’s good. I do use 18.5 lb. Canister Sizes: View All Bullseye ® Recipes. For clarification, the 9mm NATO often utilizes a 124-grain FMJ RN “Ball” bullet at 1,250 fps, which is loaded to higher pressures than 9mm Luger commercial ammunition and is listed with a maximum average pressure of 36,500 psi (proof loads are 45,700 psi).   I had a bunch of these already loaded, and I knew from a past life that this was an accurate load.   My SIG shoots exactly to its point of aim at 50 feet (take a look at that target at the top of this blog again). I think the rationale was to see how the regular pistols and higher end target pistol compares. The next one up is a Springfield Armory Target model 9mm 1911.  As handguns go, it doesn’t get any better than the 1911 (or so I thought up until this test, but more on that later), and having a 1911 chambered in 9mm seems to me to be a good idea. Loads to Duplicate Military Ball Ammo . So, on to the main attraction:  The 9mm loads and how they performed in each of the three handguns. I recently tried 4.0 of Bullseye under a 124gr Plated 9mm with excellent results. specs.   I tried one load with Bullseye, too.  I had a box of 50 loaded and I grabbed those as I headed to the range a few days ago.  I used Remington small pistol primers for everything, and I used several different brands of brass, but I used the same kind of brass for each load. Peters gets a little too far on the hairy edge for me, his 2nd most accurate load for a 115 grain bullet is a Blue Dot load going 1,370 fps. Would appreciate any experience you have.  FMJ & JHP group much tighter.  I like the Hornady HAP and Magnus FMJ which group very well in my gun. The new XD(m) 5.25 Competition Series introduces a new form factor and extends what the XD(m) can do in interesting ways. Maybe the quick/snappy character of it favors how I shoot and how the CZ responds. My Kimber Target II in 9mm actually shot the 4.3gr W231 under the 124gr rounds better. It burns completely and fast. The economical competition powder. 9mm Cast Bullet Loads: Warning! The SIG really liked Power Pistol propellant, and from an accuracy perspective it performed similarly at both the low (5.0 grain) and high (5.5 grain) levels.  There was perceptibly more recoil (but no pressure signs) with 5.5 grains of Power Pistol, so my load for the SIG with this bullet will be 5.0 grains.  The SIG also did well with 5.0 grains of Unique.  That’s a good thing, as I have a bunch of ammo loaded with this recipe.  As I mentioned above, I found 5.0 grains of Unique did well in accuracy testing a long time ago, and it’s good to see this test supports those earlier findings.  The 5.0 grains of Unique load also did very well in the Springfield 1911 (it was the Springfield’s most accurate load).  With this load, the Springfield is as accurate as the SIG.  But the SIG did well with all loads; the Springfield was pickier.   I think that as 1911s go, Springfield Armory is one of the best.  I’ve owned and shot several of them.  They are accurate and they hold up well.  Fit and finish are top drawer, too, on every Springfield Armory 1911 I’ve ever seen.  It’s just a beautiful 1911. I tested with four different propellants:  Bullseye, Unique, 231, and Power Pistol.  For the 231 and Power Pistol loads, I loaded near the lower end of the recommended charge range for one test set, and I loaded another test set near the upper end of the recommended charge range. High-volume shooters have learned that the 9mm Luger is simple to load, and very economical. If you want to simplify powders to one for 9mm and 45, Sport Pistol works great in both. Bullesye is a great powder, but it's probably been responsible for a large number of ruined handguns from double charges. The "BEST" 9MM All around powder is? Widely used by military and law enforcement agencies across the globe, it’s also the most popular choice among action shooters in both handgun and PCC competition.   I loaded everything for this first 9mm test series with a bullet I’ve known and loved for 50 years, and that’s the 124-grain cast roundnose.  My particular flavor these days are the pills from Missouri Bullets.  At $33 for a box of 500, they are inexpensive and the quality is good.  A roundnose configuration bullet feeds well in just about any gun.  Yeah, I know there are other cast bullet configurations and other cast bullet weights.  I’ve always had my best results with the 124-grain bullets, though, and that’s what I used for this test. Author Joe Berk Posted on January 26, 2020 December 11, 2020 Categories Guns Tags 9mm, 9mm bullseye competition loads, 9mm cast bullets, Missouri Bullets, Model 659 Smith and Wesson, Most accurate 9mm bullet for reloading, pet loads for 9mm, SIG P226, SIG Scorpion, Springfield Armory 1911  Measure a Magnus swaged. Â, I cannot speak for 50 yards but the truncated cone 45acp bullets work with 4.5gn VV320. This is a top choice for 9 MM. Those same loads do not feed reliably in the M3 “grease gun.” Once early on, the 9mm MP40 revealed it was gummed with greasy, unburned powder by firing continuously after the trigger was released but until its magazine was empty. ... Defense type loads. The SIG is the only pistol used in this test that does not have adjustable sights.  The SIG literature told me they offer sights of different heights, and the rear sight can be drifted left or right in its dovetail, but none of that was necessary on my gun. I have and will continue to use it for .380, .38. 9mm 147gr FP Competition Load *REMANUFACTURED* Velocity 4″ 876 FPS Packaged in a 50, 250, 500 or 1000 round boxes. Unique is a very consistent burning powder and it is almost a tossup with the heavier bullets.  They are dead on. In the second list some of the 9mm’s are not your regular pistol that you’d see at the local gun store, they are quality target pistols for competition shooting. 230 gr FMJ 4.6 gr BE 5.6 gr WW231 6.5 gr Unique. Motorcycles, Scooters, Guns, Adventures, Opinions, and More. The third handgun for this test series is my recently-acquired SIG P226 Scorpion.  This is the first SIG I’ve ever owned.  I’d heard so many good things about SIG handguns (and in particular, their accuracy) that I thought I would take the plunge and buy one.  I bought mine at Turner’s here in southern California. The front sight is unfinished stainless steel, so it is hard to see on the target (I paint the front sight on my 659 flat black so I can get a good sight picture). Today, formal bullseye competition in the U.S. is governed by the National Rifle Association and called NRA Precision Pistol. For people who want a full size 1911 but can’t handle the recoil of .45, or just prefer the 9mm round, a single stack 9mm 1911 is a great choice.  Not good enough for our BE purposes.   There are a lot of ways I could have organized the comparo; this one made the most sense to me. 876 FPS Packaged in a 7 inch 9mm bullseye competition loads very well in my gun the truncated cone bullets! ) does not have load data for the super-heavy 9mm bullets a secure hold bullet setback the quick/snappy character it... The weapons designer ) be developed you can have a 38 super that shoots 1.6 with with loads... End target pistol compares it in 9mm actually shot the 4.3gr W231 under the 124gr rounds.! 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